Scoop! - 13' Raidboat named 'Saturday Night Special'

[jwboatdesigns]

I've been asked for a "Raidboat". A single-hander to be built very cheaply from construction ply and alloy pipe in no more than 4 days then sailed in the Texas 200 next year. The crew are Kiwis who want to fly over with full sized patterns, a life-jacket, and a sail each, and build them outside their motels with materials from the local hardware store and fittings from Chuck Lienweber of Duckworks Magazine.

Attached, draft study for "Saturday Night Special". She's 4m long, 1.6m wide, 7.1 sq m sail, about 75 kg dry, no ballast, and good rowing.

384

I'm not too sure how many of you Brits are keen on Raids but I will be putting the plans on the market when they are finished. Stay tuned here on BBB for more news.



2 May 2010

Here's an update on the way SNS has been shaping up. Please note that I've had some of these pics for a while now but the whole thing was hush hush, so I didn' post 'em. Here they are at last:

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Blair, owner and builder of the prototype - that's him in the piccies above, will be taking the unfinished shell of Saturday Night Special home in a week or so, and I figured that seeing as there are no formal plans to guide him I'd cut and fit half the decks to show him what I had in mind. The centercase goes in this afternoon, it fits on the after side of the center frame that you can see.

Remember that this is a quick and dirty boat, designed to be built in a matter of days not weeks, months or years, and Blair is using the cheapest possible plywood and every shortcut that I can show him so she will never be a showpiece. But, she will be light, quite roomy and on some points of sail extremely fast.

Watch this space!


Tuesday, 25 May 2010

Here are some more progress pics on the prototype build by Blair of my Saturday Night Special. Coming along nicely, is she not?

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JohnW

[Mike]

John, thanks for letting us have this scoop. Very interesting indeed. You Kiwis sure love racing the Yanks, don't you?

I like this boat. It looks a cut above a certain other Raidboat I won't mention here. In fact, I like the whole concept of using construction WBP and alloy pipe and putting her together in just four days. :approval:

Please wish your four countrymen all the best from us here at BBB. I, for one, will be rooting for 'em and would dearly love to see them take honours in their class in the Texas 200.

Best wishes

[jwboatdesigns]

Its only at the very early concept stage as yet, and while the Texas 200 is not really a race in a competitive sense its around 40 or 50 miles a day, usually in strong winds and relatively flat water. The social aspect of the event is a large part of the attraction, and if my customers are to travel 7500 miles to get there, then build their boats and compete, its up to me to produce something that will be fun to sail as well as able to complete the event.

The original purpose aside, this boat will be a jet one up in a breeze even with that simple rig, and should be very cheap to build. It could be great fun for a couple of teenagers wanting a summer project.

John Welsford.

:Fun here, innit:

[Mike]

John, I have this feeling that the finished design will be a 'flier' and will do your customers proud. There's nothing would please me more than to see four Kiwi lads travel that 7500 miles, cobble together their Specials and then go whip some American behinds in the Texas 200.

Okay, not strictly a race, more an endurance test punctuated with top class craic in the evenings. Roll on next year's Texas 200. Meanwhile, I am looking forward to seeing how the design develops. It'll be a winner and a lot of fun, knowing you.

[Paul M]

Hi All
I have completed the Texas 200 and would really like to have some Aussies along for the ride. I don't know if you guys have heard of the Laguna design that was created for this event or not? It looks like we will have 6 of these built over the next year and two of them on the beach before the race. You can check it out at
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/laguna/index.htm

And what is all this about you brits wanting the Aussies to show up as Yanks? aren't we both former colonies of yours? What did we do to deserve this? haha

I look forward to see these boats made. There will be some parts of the trip where they will be in 3-5 foot short period swells. They will take some slamming and I just want to through that in there. It can be a little like being in a badly balanced washing maching at times, especially day 4.

Cheers
Paul

[Mike]

Hi Paul

Welcome to BBB. Enjoyed the post above but I must sort you out on one thing, if I may?

Kiwis are not Aussies and would not thank you for calling them that. They are New Zealanders, very proud to be Kiwis and, I think it's fair to say, don't exactly love Aussies (inter-island rivalry at its best).

Aussies are Australians, those from what the Kiwis call the 'big island' across the Tasman Sea (presumably, the little island across the Tasman is Tasmania).

Back onto the thread topic, it is four Kiwis (New Zealanders) who are planning to raid the Texas 200 and kick Yank behinds. And they plan to do it in Saturday Night Specials, designed by a Kiwi genius called John Welsford.

Okay, m8? Hope that helps. :rofl:

Best wishes

[Mike]

Having now read the thread on Chuck Leinweber's site at: http://www.texas200.com that enticed so many of our cousins in the US of A to visit our humble little site, I feel the need to go a little further than I did in my post above.

In my very first post above, I referred to "a certain other Raidboat I won't mention here". Some folks seem to mistakenly think I was referring there to a boat called 'Laguna', a design drafted by Jim Michalak specially for the Texas 200 Raid next year. I believe the design was commissioned by Chuck himself. In fact, the design to which I was referring (but still prefer not to mention here - for personal reasons) was one dreamed up by an Aussie designer of some notoriety, at least on this website.

To assist with proper identification, I hereafter refer to the said 'unmentionable' design as 'A non', as in 'a non-event' or 'a non finisher'. I have already gone on record elsewhere as stating I believe the design to be suitable only for extremely talented sailors, in particular those who don't mind getting very wet indeed - and frequently.

This criticism caused me to be vilified by the designer himself, not for the first time incidentally, for having the temerity to suggest 'A non' was unsuitable for beginners or the less experienced. I held, indeed still do hold, the design to be far too unstable. In my opinion, 'A non', like several of this designer's boats, is likely to tip you into the briny in the blink of an eye - unless you have enormous ability at staying upright in a fast boat under too much sail. But what would I know? If you still haven't worked out the true identity of 'A non', I would add that the first prototype was entered in the Texas 200 this year. It did not finish and was found floating on its side - without the highly experienced owner aboard. Q.E.D.

I was, then, referring not to Laguna but to 'A non'. That's set that one straight.

My next point is that there are some out there who think I am an Aussie. Not so. I was born in Wimbledon, a suburb of London famous for its tennis tournament as a part of the Grand Slam calendar. Okay, my family emigrated to Australia when I was a youngster but I had the good sense to get back to my roots here in Blighty. And I am very definitely not an Australian, though it has not been easy living here with an accent that is recognizable to the English as antipodean (the very same accent is identified as that of a 'Pom' in the land 'down under').

Finally, I want to set the record straight with respect to my saying I would like nothing better than to see four Kiwis kick some American behinds in the Texas 200 next year. Fact is that I would love to see that happen, particularly any American butt that is perched within the narrow and unstable confines of another 'A non'.

JohnW's 'Saturday Night Special', though relatively small, is about the same length as 'A non'. In my view, however, 'SNS' will be infinitely more stable and manageable than 'A non', yet still a quick boat.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but in order to be seen as competitive it is first necessary to finish an event, whether or not truly a 'race'. If next year's Texas 200 is consistent with this year's, my money would be on SNS completing the course in pretty quick time (in its class) and without getting its sailors too wet. And I reckon anyone sailing an 'A non' will find themselves dumped unceremoniously into the briny every time they lose focus for even a few seconds. Of course, if the course is bereft of breeze next year then all bets are off, though I think it likely that SNS will still do rather well against all comers bar the multi-hulls.

To a certain 'Lady Sailor' and others among our American cousins, I say this in closing: I would love to see several 'A non's competing next year, just as I would love to see very many 'SNS's. And I wish all competitors strong winds, smooth water, and first class 'craic' at every campsite along the route. Roll on the Texas 200 of 2010. And I sincerely hope to see the Kiwi contingent teach you Yanks - as well as any Aussies who enter - a thing or two about sailing. :frog:

Best wishes

[Paul M]

Hi
sorry about the Aussie vs Kiwi mix up. I was confused, but I do know the difference. Most of the people who sail the T200 are not fast sailors nor do they care much for speed. So any self respecting Kiwi who flies half way around the world and builds a boat on the beach and wants to go fast will easily beat everyone out there, except for one boat. The EC22 designed by graham byrnes of B&B boat designs. It is the fastest boat I have ever seen. It gets up and plans in about 3 seconds in 10 knots of wind. Self tacking and highly dangerous unless you are a great sailor. Not a beginners boat. Oddly graham is an Aussie.
Thanks
Paul

[Mike]

Ha ha ha. No problem, Paul. :approval: It's difficult to tell an Aussie from a Kiwi. In fact, as the Kiwi's are given to frequently say, it's impossible to tell an Aussie ... anything, because they think they already know! :rofl:.

Nope, 'A non' is not the EC22 and the Aussie designer in question is not 'Graham Byrnes'. However, it does not surprise me that the EC22 is a fast boat suitable only for the highly skilled sailor - for two reasons as follows.

One, Aussies are intensely competitive by nature and want to 'win' at everything they do. The phrase used to describe this characteristic in them is that they 'play for cattle stations' (for ranches, to an American). To the Australian, even a game of tiddleywinks is deadly serious and MUST be won - at all costs. 'Participation' and 'sportsmanship' are not concepts in the Aussie's psyche. And the word 'loser' is so shameful that it is always unspoken. A winner is lauded as a hero, a runner-up is unmentionable and unmentioned.

Two, they have a penchant for sailing with far too much sail aloft. It is, in a way, a part of reason one above in that it is an element of their obsession with 'winning' - no matter what that takes. They will cram on more and more sail without regard for stability or safety. And that is how their boats become unstable and, as you rightly say, 'dangerous' in particular to the beginner or the inexperienced and unwary.

Although there must be exceptions to the above 'rules', I believe they are applicable to most Aussies involved in any particular sporting endeavour. I suspect these characteristics are derived from a deep-seated lack of any real national identity and from celebrating for years an event in history they would much rather forget. Essentially, Aussies are of 'convicts and their keepers' stock and have an inherent tendency to cheat if they can't 'win' by fair means.

My experience is that Kiwis are not too much like Aussies, and their sailing skills are second to none. I know which I would prefer to crew for, anyway.

So, Paul, no need to apologise for any mistakes in national identity. It takes experience to know the difference. One way to quickly sort out the wheat from the chaff is to pay attention to the slight difference in spoken language. A Kiwi will say what sounds like 'sex' when the Aussie will pronounce the same word as 'six'. Frankly, I would rather engage in six than be counting.

Best wishes

[Paul M]

Mike
I just wanted to throw out there, I am sure you know already, that any sailor who knows there busyness knows that some times less sail makes you go faster. So the Aussie attitude you allude to could be considered a fairly large fault. Just look a the results for the sydney-hobart race results over the years.
just my two cents.
paul

[Mike]

And an astute two cents worth that is, Paul. Couldn't agree more. Besides, we should never forget the tale of the Tortoise and the Hare. Time wil tell whether my assessments are sound. But like I said, how would I know? Heh heh.

JW's Saturday Night Special is likely to be very special indeed. John's a knowledgeable and wily old dog, I can tell you, and several of his designs to date have been remarkably quick as well as beautiful to behold. With SNS he is not much concerned with aesthetics, of course, but with hull speed, handling, and ease of build.

As a matter of significant interest, the second protype of 'A non' took its highly experienced builder more than 400 hours to cobble together. It is one hell of a fiddly boat for its modest size and appearance. Compare that with just four days for SNS!

Incidentally, I look foward to hearing how you and your folks get on with testing the course for the proposed OBX 130. Are you going to sail it in a Laguna?

Best wishes

[TomH]

JW & Blair,

Many thanks for posting the progress reports.

The shape looks brilliant - so different in the flesh compared to the dwgs. She looks nice and stiff and if on her lines shouldn't be sticky in the light.

From the progress so far - are you able to project the bare hull (no rig) weight?.

Would love to see pics of her bottom shape (fwd & aft views) when you get her turned over - don't you just love it when the lurkers pester the builders for more and faster!

It's going to be agonizing for some of us to be waiting for you to get a chance to evaluate her sailing characteristics.

JW - now that you see her in 3D - what's your impressions of her?

I'm ready to sign up for the prototype 'Shotgun' build (at 5m loa hopefully)

Many thanks for your efforts,
TomH

[sdakotadoug]

Now this is specifically what I signed up for. Like all the other topics, just this one is lighting my fire. Very anxious for more. Doug

[TomH]

Now this is specifically what I signed up for. Like all the other topics, just this one is lighting my fire. Very anxious for more. Doug

BUMP! Been a while, anxious for more indeed.

JW,
Can we get an update on build progress? -or- comments on how your thinking may be evolving? -or- both?

And, not to be inconsistent with my previous posts... your thinking on the Shotgun (5m?) version of SNS ?


And, all the best to Blair!

[Mike]

Ha ha :rofl: I enjoyed that post, Tom. That was telling it like you feel it. Well done. :approval:

Now, let me dive in here to John's defence, if I may - not that he ever really needs my help (the other way around usually).

Without getting too personal, Tom, the fact is that JW injured himself rather nastily and was on his back for quite a while. That put his activity well behind the eight ball. He has since then been trying desperately to deal with the backlog while at the same time taking on a day job to make ends meet.

There are some things in life that won't wait, such as paying the mortgage off and ensuring ones loved ones are safe and secure. Little matters more, in my view.

While I do understand your 'BUMP', I would ask you to be patient for a little longer, please. And you'd better stand in line behind me too. I'm waiting for a number of things but, knowing what's been happening, I am more than happy to wait - John's output is invariably worth waiting for, you see?

In fact, I would like to suggest something to all of our members: John is the kind of designer who relies very heavily on his artistic inspiration. He does not produce drawings to make himself rich. He simply loves what he does and it doesn't make him wealthy. That means he sometimes has to make sure the wolf is kept from the door in other ways than through his plans sales.

We can all help by being patient. And we can help even more by putting a few bucks, pounds, or other types of moolah, into buying his designs.

Tom, I note you are very keen to build Shotgun. I am certain that John has noted that fact. I am keen to build Pioneer. The anticipation is sometimes unbearable, I know. But it will undoubtedly make receipt of the drawings something very special indeed. That's the way it ought to be.

So, stay kewl and let it happen. I can assure you that John will get there eventually. But he is a mere mortal, like you and me, and there are only so many hours in any day.

Best wishes

[TomH]

Now, let me dive in here to John's defence, if I may - not that he ever really needs my help (the other way around usually).
Best wishes
Hi Mike,
No need to defend JW's inability to do everything that everyone wants, and all at the same time as well. :kiss:

At the moment I was more interested in seeing an update of Blair's progress, which seemed to be coming to us funneled through JW, which might be slowing down the flow of information. So, maybe you can open a channel for Blair to contribute directly, that would unload JW too.

Getting Blair's SNS sailing will also tell us what we need to know about this design series which is more than enough to decide how a 5m -or- stretched version will work.

All the best to JW!

Cheers,

[Mike]

Hi Tom

Blair is not yet a member here but that's a real good suggestion. Perhaps John will set that up and I will put it to him the next time we chat. I would like to see how it's developing too.

Best wishes